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geerlingguy 13 hours ago [-]
So... at what point does someone re-create a 386 or 6501 but using only a motherboard, with no discrete circuits?
Cieric 13 hours ago [-]
Shouldn't that have already been do-able? I know the The MOnSter 6502 is a thing. The 386 I have no idea about though, that's to far out of my wheel house.
A replica 386 would be impractically large - it's got around 275k transistors, compared to the 3.5k in the 6502. At the same scale as the MOnSter 6502, that'd be about a hundred square feet of PCB.
The number of layers isn't even remotely close to being a constraint. The real i386DX was manufactured on a process which only supported two metal layers, and a PCB version isn't subject to the same constraints as silicon.
snek_case 5 hours ago [-]
The ARM1 was a 32-bit CPU and it only had about 25K transistors so that one might be fair game if you can bring the components a little bit closer together, but you don't need a fancy PCB for that, and I guess the clock speed would need to be very slow if it's several square feet in size.
geerlingguy 12 hours ago [-]
But in terms of rearranging the stack vertically; is that a possibility?
duskwuff 11 hours ago [-]
Components like transistors usually have to go on the surface of a PCB. (While there are techniques for embedding components in a PCB, they're extraordinarily expensive and would not be feasible for a project like this one.)
snek_case 5 hours ago [-]
Probably not, because transistors produce some heat, and you can't really sandwich surface mount transistors between PCB layers either. You could vertically stack PCBs with some spacing, however, but then normal PCBs will do the job.
Cieric 12 hours ago [-]
Interesting, thanks for the info.
Lerc 10 hours ago [-]
The layers still need something to link together. You could try a board with as many MSPM0C1104 as you can fit on each side. I'm sure you could use the layers to make some esoteric interconnection map.
A dsbga-28 MSPM0G1106 might be better for using up the layers. 4.2mm^2 still so maybe 24 per square cm.
charcircuit 7 hours ago [-]
Wouldn't that be MiSTer where you have a single chip emulate a whole system?
gunalx 7 hours ago [-]
Wouldn't this just be a mess signal integrity wise?
rwmj 6 hours ago [-]
I assume half the layers must be ground planes, but even so yes.
hankbond 12 hours ago [-]
Can someone explain the implications of this?
magicalhippo 11 hours ago [-]
They state it's for HBM wafer inspection equipment:
OKI Group printed circuit board (PCB) company, has successfully developed 124-layer PCB technology for wafer inspection equipment designed for next-generation high bandwidth memory, such as HBM
Since the latest semiconductors process an enormous number of signals and the number of wafer-mounted chips increases due to process miniaturization, it is necessary to increase density and more layers on the PCBs used in inspection equipment.
In their linked semiconductor testing page[1], they mention conductive paste. So seems they test whole wafers by having the whole wafer put on such a PCB, using conductive paste instead of solder or similar, and the high layer count is then to be able to bring out all the connections (pins) from each chip to the testing circuits while maintaining the high signal integrity required for the high-speed signals.
HBM makes it worse since it is fast due to its very high bus width, 1024 bits wide, moving to 2048 bits wide[2]. So to test a HBM chip on a wafer before its cut and bonded to a GPU chip or such, you'd need to bring out those thousands of connections per chip on the wafer. Hence the need for so many layers compared to a regular PCB.
The number of levels of traces and gates laid out is an important aspect of how much sophistication and capability available to connect ICs on a pcb. You are laying out power and ground and communication. There are lots of other considerations like the complexity of what you can plan to layout using software. But you stack layers of traces to add capability. More layers is naively more capability.
Not my area, probably got it all wrong, hope this is useful.
deadbabe 6 hours ago [-]
Physical LLM boards with fixed weights.
Joel_Mckay 11 hours ago [-]
The PCB itself often forms several different components these days.
Higher density chip packing is only one advantage. Unlikely going to see such things in cost-optimized consumer products. =3
s1mon 7 hours ago [-]
Yo dawg, I heard you liked layers inside your layers.
rsync 13 hours ago [-]
OKI ? As in, my cellular scanner ?
golem14 9 hours ago [-]
OKI, as in ... my old laser printer ?
wlindley 2 hours ago [-]
OKI, as in ... my old Microline 82a dot-matrix?
devy 11 hours ago [-]
> TOKYO, April 25, 2025 -- OKI Circuit Technology... OTC is seeking to establish mass production technology by October 2025 at its Joetsu Plant in Joetsu City, Niigata Prefecture
Dan, this is 2025! Not a Hacker News-worthy at the end of 2026.
Also, 124 layer PCB is ONLY 15% extra than the conventional 108 layer PCB. Incremental upgrade!
https://monster6502.com/
The number of layers isn't even remotely close to being a constraint. The real i386DX was manufactured on a process which only supported two metal layers, and a PCB version isn't subject to the same constraints as silicon.
A dsbga-28 MSPM0G1106 might be better for using up the layers. 4.2mm^2 still so maybe 24 per square cm.
OKI Group printed circuit board (PCB) company, has successfully developed 124-layer PCB technology for wafer inspection equipment designed for next-generation high bandwidth memory, such as HBM
Since the latest semiconductors process an enormous number of signals and the number of wafer-mounted chips increases due to process miniaturization, it is necessary to increase density and more layers on the PCBs used in inspection equipment.
In their linked semiconductor testing page[1], they mention conductive paste. So seems they test whole wafers by having the whole wafer put on such a PCB, using conductive paste instead of solder or similar, and the high layer count is then to be able to bring out all the connections (pins) from each chip to the testing circuits while maintaining the high signal integrity required for the high-speed signals.
HBM makes it worse since it is fast due to its very high bus width, 1024 bits wide, moving to 2048 bits wide[2]. So to test a HBM chip on a wafer before its cut and bonded to a GPU chip or such, you'd need to bring out those thousands of connections per chip on the wafer. Hence the need for so many layers compared to a regular PCB.
That's my semi-informed take.
[1]: https://www.oki-otc.jp/en/products/test.html
[2]: https://www.nextpcb.com/blog/hbm-vs-gddr7-pcb-layout#pcb-hbm
This article from Aug 2026 says 20 layers are for complex designs. https://www.pcbasic.com/blog/pcb-layers.html. So 124 layers looks like a huge increase.
Not my area, probably got it all wrong, hope this is useful.
Higher density chip packing is only one advantage. Unlikely going to see such things in cost-optimized consumer products. =3
Dan, this is 2025! Not a Hacker News-worthy at the end of 2026.
Also, 124 layer PCB is ONLY 15% extra than the conventional 108 layer PCB. Incremental upgrade!